What happens when you're just a genuinely nice guy who tries to be kind to anyone he meets, male or female? I once became friends with a girl, and after she casually mentioned she really liked Led Zeppelin but didn't have any of their albums (this was 2005ish, back when people still bought music) I burnt her my copy of their complete discography (the 4 disc version, anyway). It took me about 2 minutes to do, and I thought of it as no more than a kind gesture, plus a means of making more Zeppelin fans. After that, she started avoiding me and got really distant and cold whenever we did talk, as if the more I treated her with kindness and respect, the more she avoided me. I'm neither obsessive nor masochistic (unlike a lot of other nerdy guys, apparently), so after a couple negative encounters, I stopped trying to talk to her. A few months later, one of her friends mentioned to me that the girl she ignoring me because she thought any guy who treated her nicely was trying to get into her pants. After a while, the girl in questioned figured out I wasn't interested in her, that I'm a blunt, honest sort of guy who just asks a girl out if he likes her, and we were friends for several years after that.\\ \\ Fortunately, this hasn't happened very often, but there are some women out there who, either because of negative experiences with dogged nice guys, or because they anticipate negative experiences, treat any guy who's nice to them like dirt and miss out on some truly wonderful friendships and relationships because of it. This just adds fuel to the "all girls want jerks" fire. Also, it's important (though maybe difficult at first, depending on how good at manipulating people he is) to recognize the difference between a Dogged Nice Guy and a nice guy who happens to like you. One just acts nice to get you to like him, the other is a genuinely good person. Sadly, the Dogged Nice Guy will probably stick around and be a creeper even after you've turned him down. It's not like men are any wiser, though. It took this troper 4 years to figure out his current (very shy) girlfriend liked him.

What is that feeling where you want forgiveness from someone, but they either can't or won't hear such pleas? I've been thinking back about a horribly backfired attempt at gaining a girl's friendship. When this troper was in high school, I was part of the orchestra program (I played viola), and every year, the orchestra holds an annual "orchestra festival", which is basically a showcase of the HS orchestra program to the 8th grade string players from the middle school. And as part of it, the 8th graders play a song with the HS string players. One year, I happened to be paired with one of them. This was the girl I ended up hurting. We chatted, we played, it all sounded like fun. And after that, she was gone. I didn't think of her again.\\ \\ The next year, however, I bumped into her as I was walking through the halls. I was simply passing by, and I noticed her and was like "Wow, it's you! How've you been!". Soon afterwards, I (retrospectively speaking) began bugging her. I thought I was invoking my BigBrotherInstinct. I thought I should warm her up to the high school, to its orchestra program, since I felt pretty naive as a freshman. I didn't realize it, but I instilled a loathing towards me. I can just imagine her (somewhat deserved) fury. I think the real reason I haven't visited high school since graduating is all because of this. This quote, originally out of ''PlanesTrainsAndAutomobiles'', best describes what I'm feeling: #QUOTE#"I meet someone whose company I really enjoy, and what do I do? I go overboard. I smother the poor soul. I cause [her] more trouble than [she] has a right to.

I gotta go on, but it's probably the one thing about high school, hell, possibly about my life so far, that truly shames me. And it's incredibly painful to think I may never get to make amends with her. It's not simply the pain of being hated, but the pain of being hated and never getting any opportunity to atone for it.

This troper somehow ran into several (younger) Dogged Nice Guys in high school. Unfortunately, this troper wound up falling for these guys' tricks (that they were all type 2 DNGs didn't help), only to find out later that they were very selfish and immature and seemed to think they were entitled to touch me simply because I was their girlfriend. I had a really rough time after the first boyfriend who did this, but subsequent boyfriends kept doing this even when I told them why I didn't always feel comfortable even cuddling. This troper is now in college and doesn't trust anyone who appears to have a Y chromosome.

This troper, who is an attractive (so I've been told) woman and also a colossal nerd, has run into these more times than she can count, both on and offline. These are the guys who will pat themselves on the back over Facebook about how they are such "nice guys" and angst on and on about how no girl will date them because they all flock to "jerks." I've had plenty of genuine male friends, so I can tell the difference between them and the "nice guy." A real male friend will actually hold a conversation with you, make you laugh and not expect a thing in return, and most of all, give you your goddamn space. A "nice guy" lays on the passive-aggressive "I care about you NOTICE ME NOTICE ME NOTICE ME" garbage right off the bat, following you around and always making these obnoxious little "hints" . No wonder these guys never get dates. When I meet one, the first thing I want to do is run as far away from them as humanly possible from the creepy, self-pitying, pasty, occasionally smelly loser (Now, I'm not shallow, but did you, Mr. "Nice Guy", ever figure that maybe you're not as attractive as you think you are? You don't have to be a movie star to get dates, but at least some self-consciousness or basic hygiene would be nice). You know what the difference between a nice guy and a "nice guy" is? All the genuinely good guys I've met HAVE GIRLFRIENDS. Frankly, the fact that they automatically jump to blaming everyone with two X chromosomes for their own failures and treating women like they're a hive mind rather than, you know, human beings shows their true immature colors well enough. Guess what? This troper is currently engaged! To a wonderful, intelligent, creative man who didn't just hang back and expect me to see that he was obviously perfect for me. HE ASKED ME OUT. Unlike you, you legions of "nice guys", I can actually talk to him, and he respects what I have to say. So, if you fit the description of Mr. "Nice Guy", PLEASE rethink your life. You may be more at-fault than you think.

Proof of Facebook patting, or I don't believe you. And also, prove that you were not regarded as an exception, or I don't believe you.

This troper sides with the OP, to an extent. It's true some really nice guys can have a hard time getting girls. If that's you, don't give up hope. There is someone wonderful out there for you, I promise. That being said, giving a girl space is a sign of respect. For me, I really don't care what someone looks like or what clothes they wear or how much money, though God knows I'm attracted to nerds, but being too desperate or clingy is a huge turnoff. Also, it's not really the girl's fault for rejecting you. As long as she wasn't lying to you or purposefully leading you on (and just being your friend doesn't count as "leading you on"), then she totally has the right to accept or reject anyone's advances she sees fit. That being said, I think the OP could have been alot less bitchy in her wording. All of us have our socially awkward moments/embarrassments, it's part of how we grow.

OP, you took the words out of my mouth. Bravo.

This trope... fits this Troper well. Six months ago, I met a girl. We became good friends, and spent quite a bit of time together. However, it was too much. I fell for her, and I ended up playing this trope straight. It got deconstructed afterward, since she found my advances towards her to just be creepy. I ended up always trying to spend time with her, it went a bit overboard. I ended up being clingy, always following her around and walking with her before and afterschool since we're in different grades and don't share a lunch period. Even with her hints that she was getting annoyed with me (ignoring me a bit, feeling a bit annoyed at my appearances). She just didn't tell me, because she was afraid to be honest, afraid to hurt me. I should've taken the hint and just quit. But of course, I never gave up. I kept following her and tried to spend time with her, but it grew obsessive. Then, she just couldn't take it. She didn't want to put up with my Dogged Nice Guy-ness. She just started ignoring me and pushing me away and stopped talking to me. Eventually she didn't even want to be my friend at all anymore, and refused to even acknowledge my existence. Needless to say, it hurt. I hadn't realized I was being that clingy, creepy, and obsessive. I never meant to be that, though. I just wanted to spend a lot of time with her. I just went a bit overboard. She'll never forgive me, either. I lost that friendship with her. Afterward, I felt as if I had to throw upon a stoic facade as if everything was fine. She's certainly fine without me in her life anymore, although I'm obviously not. I was full of angst for a good month or so. I thought I got over it then, but two weeks ago I started thinking about this whole thing again. Since then I've learned, though. I do deserve it, for being so clingy anyway. I couldn't help it. I have low self esteem... But, because of it, I've been distancing myself from people, afraid for this whole ordeal to happen again. Also not a good thing, but at least I'm saving people the trouble of getting to know me. I just need to know how to fix being so... clingy, creepy, and obsessive, though I never meant to be any of those things. I need to learn how to be independent, too. Long story short, I'm a Dogged Nice Guy. It's probably not a good thing to be, and I need to fix it.

I have a female friend who I have quite an interesting history with. My mother is a Junior high school teacher and the kind of woman who remains friendly with all of her students long after they move on. I used to tease that she taught everyone in our town because she'd stop in stores and so many other public places to talk to former students. One student In particular had a very difficult home situation and a series of mental and emotional problems including suicide attempts. I first met her when my mother took her in when she was free to leave her group home on the weekends. We provided a bed. But we didn't really speak much then. It wasn't till sometime afterward when she was thrown out of her home by her mother that she moved in with us. It was initially only supposed to be till she finished her senior year of high school. But after she graduated she had no where to go. She was an illegal immigrant brought to the sates by her mother when she was 7 so she couldn't go to University and to this day struggles to get/hold a job. Despite her best efforts to get citizenship and dozens of mettings with lawyers nothing seems to work. So she still lives with my parents. We became friends when she first moved in. We were both very different people back then. I was an angsty Nietzsche Wannabe and she was a bit of a know it all goth girl. Looking back we were both terrible people. About a year after she first moved we started to get sick of each other. And eventually we had an incredibly stupid argument about the validity of The Other Wiki in internet arguments. We hated each other with a fiery passion for about 2 years after that. Then I moved out, grew up, and stopped being so prone to arguments. She unfortunately was still stuck with pay parents but in that time came to faith in Christianity. She mellowed out just as much as I. And in no time we were great friends again. I will admit spread throughout our entire friendship I had little crushes on her. I think part of the reason I argued with her so fervently back then was I liked her at the time. But anyway, Fast forward some more. She was dating someone and its not going well. The breakup was so bad that she tried to kill herself. I was destroyed by this news when I found out. I don't think I have ever cried so hard. I was with a friend at the time and in talking to him I had the realization that I'm in love with her. For the next week I visited her in the hospital everyday up until her release. I wanted so badly to confess my feelings but I knew what she really needed was comfort and support and Doing so would have been inappropriate. Finally about 3 weeks later I spoke to her about my feelings. I was rejected, straight forward rejected with "just friends" speech and all. I was quiet but was also clearly upset and she was She was worried I hated her. I told her later that that wouldn't be fair to hate her for for not feeling the same way. For about 2 days following that I was impossibly depressed. But something good happened. I remember sitting in a dentist office having an epiphany. We hated each other for such a long time and our friendship was able to recover from that. How would me loving her more than she loves me ruin our friendship permanently? And sure enough just over a week later we started hanging out again. Spending more time together than ever. And now we've arrived in the present just a few months later. I admit I am having problems moving past my feelings for her but I know that I will eventually. As much as it hurts and as jealous as I feel when she talks about other guys. I know somehow It'll work out. Either some stupid rom-com situation will happen and we'll be together. Or I'll meet someone else and finally move on. In the meantime the only thing I can do is love her and if being her friend and helping her through her situations is how I do that then thats what I'll do.

I guess I'd consider myself a semi-DNG. Really, the thing is, I don't crush on many girls. Usually I seem to crush on girls who aren't available though. I am definitely a type 2, waiting on the sidelines till the girl I like isn't dating anyone, then gently make a move. However, as of recently, I have decided to put a hold on romance, feeling I might not be ready. And furthermore, I recently had a tarot reading (no, seriously...) where I mentioned one of the girls I had a crush on. The person told me that I should not go after her and, to that end, I have decided to give up. I am still friends with her and have told myself to not talk about my feelings to her. It's, admittedly, a little hard, but I think I can handle it.

This troper has had a rather..."loyal" follower ever since the fourth grade. It started at the beginning of the year, when I was the only kid who would let him sit by me at lunch, despite the fact that he was explosively bipolar, and thus, potentially dangerous, in addition to being a nonstop talker. We're about to be sophomores in high school now. Six years, and he still hasn't let up. Think about that for a moment. I could swear that he borders on StalkerWithACrush sometimes, since I no longer find it unusual to see him riding his bike in circles around my driveway when I come home from school.

I was a Dogged Nice Girl to my high school crush, who did like me, but thought of me as another guy friend.